Writing a psychic rom-com character with Maggie Mull
Rom-com-versations is an interview series with people from the entertainment industry discussing all things rom-coms
Hi Meet Cuties,
This week, I sat down with the creative and inspiring Maggie Mull. Maggie is a Hollywood producer and writer who has worked on shows such as FAMILY GUY, LIFE IN PIECES, and DADS. Maggie’s father, Martin Mull, is no stranger to the world of Hollywood and comedy for both younger and older generations, having been on classics like ROSANNE as well as newer sitcoms like TWO AND A HALF MEN. It’s no surprise that Maggie followed in his quite hilarious footsteps. Not only does Maggie write comedy for TV, she also wrote satirical cartoons for ELLE.com and The New Yorker. She continues to exercise that creative outlet though her Instagram – I promise you won’t regret spending some time on her feed. Maggie Mull recently signed a new multi-year overall deal with 20th Century Television and has just released her new show MAGGIE. I’m jazzed to share my conversations with Maggie today. Let’s dive in!
💓 Naomi: What is your favorite rom com and why?
❤️ Maggie: There is a list of about 20 rom-coms that I love. Only You, with Marisa Tomei and Robert Downey Jr., is one of the best rom-coms, and it's very similar actually to what I'm doing now because it plays with this idea of fate. Marisa Tomei is a child playing on a ouija board and is told her soulmate's name. She spends her life looking for this guy named Damon Bradley, and in her search for him, she meets Robert Downey Jr. He helps her look for him, but of course in the end, Robert is the person she's supposed to be with. On top of a great story line, it takes place in Italy and the clothes are stunning. It's the rom-com version of The Talented Mr. Ripley, you get that aesthetic, but then you also get Marisa Tomei being zany in these beautiful dresses. That's definitely one, but weirdly-- this is kind of like a curveball-- my favorite movie is Addams Family Values. I became a romantic because of Gomez and Morticia’s relationship; they never waver in their love for one another, they dance, they waltz. There's something very romantic about that movie even though it's not a typical rom-com. Watching it as an adult, it's so over the top, but I still find it deeply romantic, which is probably why I'm single and haven't found someone to recite Gothic poetry to me.
💓 Naomi: I really love this point because a lot of times I will say, "I loved this rom-com!" and they respond, "That's not in the genre of rom-coms." But, why not? If there's an element of levity, humor, and a strong connection between two people, that's all you need. I'm going to take a turn and dive into your writing career. You started your writing career working on Seth McFarland's sitcom Dads, and later went to write for Family Guy as well. Tell us how you started with Seth.
❤️ Maggie: I actually got the job through a dovetailing of events, which was me writing jokes on Twitter. To me, that's the best you can get out of Twitter: once you get a job out of Twitter, it's time to quit. It was through that, but also through my dad, who's an actor and was already working on Dads. I knew the writer through Twitter, so I was able to jump between them to express my interest in writing on the show. I was actually attempting a masters degree in creative writing at the time from CalArts, and I really wanted to be a fiction writer, but something clicked in me when this opportunity came up. I missed comedy. There wasn't much in my MFA program and there wasn't a lot in novel writing. So, the minute the opportunity came up, I put everything I had into acting on it, which really surprised me because I had never wanted to be a screenwriter. It had not been in the plans, but the minute it happened, that was it. That was 10-12 years ago.
💓 Naomi: Taking all the energy that you had and throwing it into that career to marry comedy and writing is incredibly inspiring. What is something that you learned during your time at Dads that you carry with you today in your writing career?
❤️ Maggie: It was such a memorable writer's room. The show was created by Alec Sulkin and Wellesley Wild, who wrote the movie Ted, but it was run by Mike Scully, who was a Simpsons titan. There were so many Simpsons, Seinfeld, and Family Guy writers in that room. I had no idea what I was doing, I had never been in a comedy room before, and I didn't understand how it operated. I learned there's almost a musical rhythm to every room, so I spent the first year just really listening and didn't participate that much. I participated occasionally, but there was so much to learn before speaking up. For example, it wasn't learning how to pitch a joke, but when to pitch a joke and how not to step on someone else pitching a joke, or how to pitch in a way where it could actually work in a scene. When younger writers ask me what I think is the most important skill to have in a room, my answer is listening. More than putting something out, it's taking things in and paying attention to how the room works as a whole and where your part is in it.
💓 Naomi: At that point, were you one of the younger people in the writer's room and were you also like one of a few women?
❤️ Maggie: There was one other staff writer in the room who was about my age, Justin Noble, who now runs The Sex Lives of College Girls. He's amazing! It was him and I, and we were the youngest by probably 10 years. There was one other woman in the room, Julie Scully, who was married to Mike Scully; they were really a team together. She was lovely. I couldn't have asked for a better person to look up to and to emulate as a female comedy writer. She was so comfortable in this room full of guys, she handled herself so well, and she was so funny. I think about her all the time and ask myself, "Am I acting like Julie Scully right now?" Other than that, it was definitely a terrifying time being with all those people who were so good at what they did, and not knowing yet how to do it.
💓 Naomi: Speaking of humor and comedy, a lot of people might not know just how funny you are if they don't follow you on Instagram or if they haven’t see some of the satirical cartoons you wrote for ELLE magazine back in the day.
How did you get into comic writing? Besides Instagram, do you do anything else that marries these talents of writing, comedy, and illustrations?
❤️ Maggie: I feel like people reading my cartoons don't actually think they're funny at all. Sometimes I'll put something out on Instagram that I think are funny and I'll get these private messages from people asking me, "Hey, are you doing okay?" I guess sometimes they come off a bit morose. I don't realize it at the time, but I'm okay with being morose. I always wanted to do cartoons. Part of the reason why I wanted an MFA at CalArts was because I was hoping to do a graphic novel. I like stories that have a visual and narrative element and at that time, I wasn't even considering screenwriting, which also weds what we see and what we hear. I had a friend who started posting on Instagram a drawing a day, which made me think, "If he can do that, maybe I should do a cartoon a day." It wasn't going to happen unless I started and I was in that place where I was ready to take action. So, I started posting a cartoon every day. Then, I was very lucky that one of the editors at ELLE saw them, liked them, and asked me if I would start doing them for ELLE. It was really fortunate and also unfortunate because I really had to step up my game. These were just silly things that I was doing for my friends. I don't think I'm much of an artist, but I definitely like the element of drawing out a joke.
💓 Naomi: Did you feel like you had to filter yourself more or was it perfecting your jokes a little bit more and not putting out half baked thoughts like you could when it was just you?
❤️ Maggie: It was definitely both. It was filtered more towards an ELLE audience, so probably something about the female experience rather than just a punny joke. On top of that, I had to make these look a bit more professional. I had to teach myself how to use Photoshop and had to get it to a point where at least it wasn't embarrassing. Once I started doing that, I got into creating for The New Yorker, and then again had to change the tone of what I was submitting to be more New Yorker-y and more intellectual. Now, I feel like something has happened where I'm leaning away from doing jokes and I find that the drawings are more like poetry and a way for me to express something that I don't quite know how to put into words. It's not even about getting to the joke, it's trying to really pin down my feelings.
💓 Naomi: How and when do you carve out time for something that's consistent like this?
❤️ Maggie: It's mostly at times like when I'm laying in bed in the quiet of the night. It's like journal writing where you feel like you need to process something out in order to get to the heart of what's happening right now. Sometimes I'll put something out thinking no one is even going to understand it, but then people will respond positively to it. It feels so good to know that, 1) you're not the only one feeling something, but also 2) you are understood.
💓 Naomi: Yes, that is the essence of human connection: can someone else take what I've done and apply it to their own life, however that may be. Let’s talk about Maggie, your new show premiering on Hulu. This series tells the story of a psychic navigating her own dating story. Can you tell us a little bit about how the series came to be?
❤️ Maggie: Justin Adler, who I had worked with on Life in Pieces, called me one day and said, "There's this short film about a psychic. I think it'd be a great TV show, and I would love for you to write it and help me develop it." I responded, "Oh my gosh, I love this. I love psychics. I love the premise. What's it called?" And he said, "Well, it's actually called Maggie..." The funny thing is I have a lot in common with this character, which I think is why I got brought on to write it. I actually wanted to change the title because I didn't want people to think that I would name a show after myself and I thought it would help me to have distance from the character, but everyone liked Maggie. Anyways, it was this short film about a psychic who can see how things end, so it's made dating really hard for her because she'll meet someone and know very quickly that it doesn't work out, causing consistent complications when starting new relationships. I really relate to that– even though I'm not psychic– because when you meet someone, you immediately have a gut feeling on them. I think that's incredibly strong and it can prevent you from moving on with a person.
💓 Naomi: Without the psychic part, I am also really relating to Maggie because I often think five steps ahead and will get into that negative loop worrying about if something will go wrong. We've talked a lot at Meet Cute about shows that go out to depict what dating is like in today's landscape, especially with the rise of dating apps. I love that Maggie adds a supernatural element into this theme of what dating is like today. I'm curious from your lens, what do you think Maggie shows the audience about dating in today's world that we haven't seen in other shows?
❤️ Maggie: We do have this supernatural element, so we get to take this metaphor that comes up about second guessing whether a relationship is going to go somewhere and we get to see it play out in real time, both comedically and dramatically. Another thing I was really interested in touching on in terms of dating today was this concept of red flags, which was a new term I learned about in the past three years. Because we have this psychic character, she's actually seeing these red flags come to fruition. I thought that was really interesting because we can see red flags with people that we actually should end up with, and we can dismiss them with people that we shouldn't end up with. I was really playing with this idea of "how do you really tell if a relationship's gonna work or not?" Sometimes you don't know, but sometimes you do and a red flag is exactly telling you: don't go down this path. In the case of this character, Maggie, because she's someone who's become a little cynical-- like a lot of us who are still out in the world dating-- her journey is one where she has to overcome her fears and live in the moment.
💓 Naomi: There's something really smart about this because in so many rom-coms, you know what the ending is when you sit down to watch it. Since Maggie can see endings, it's really about the in-between moments and falling in love with the person rather than getting to the end that you're focused on. You're using that element of a rom-com in one of the smartest ways that I've ever seen because you're acknowledging the ending by making her psychic.
❤️ Maggie: You totally get it! At first when Justin and I were working on this, we were worried that was a problem. Ultimately, we realized that's every love story. Any time I sit down to see a rom-com, I know the ending, but I still want to see it so badly. I want to see how they get there. It's not, "will they or won't they," it's "how the hell will they?"
💓 Naomi: I have one last question for you. Besides Maggie, do you have any other projects that are cooking up that you can give us a sneak peek into?
❤️ Maggie: I actually just started in a writer's room on a new show, called Not Dead Yet, that's going to be on ABC about an obituary writer who sees ghosts of the people she's writing obituaries about. It’s fun and also has this supernatural element. On top of that, I have my development deal at 20th Century, so I'm just trying to come up with new projects and new ideas to develop.
Thank you for reading this rom-com-versation with Maggie! All episodes of Maggie’s new show Maggie (non-autobiographical), are out now on Hulu. That’s all I’ll leave you with because I need to go binge. right. now.
Stay tuned for my next Rom-com-versation.
xx,
Naomi